Beeson Podcast, Episode #616 DeVonta Anderson Aug. 23, 2022 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. Today we conclude our series on the theme of this summer’s Beeson Magazine, “Singing the Faith,” with a special alumnus who serves as both a pastor and a Christian rapper. I hope you’re intrigued. Kristen will tell you more about this good friend in just a minute. Before she does, let me tell you we are one week away from a new semester, and there is much going on in the hallowed halls of Beeson. Our Tuesday chapels begin on August 30th. Our Lay Academy classes begin in September. We also have two big conferences this fall: The Beauty of God: Preaching, Worship, and the Arts AND our Second Annual Beeson Alumni Conference. The best ways to keep up with all that’s going on are to bookmark the events page of the Beeson Website and sign up for our new e-newsletter: Happenings. www.BeesonDivinity.com/media. All right, Kristen. Please tell us about today’s special guest. >>Kristen Padilla: Today’s guest is DeVonta Anderson. Reverend Anderson is a Beeson alumnus, Senior Pastor of St. Paul AME Church in Adamsville, and a Christian artist. We are so glad to have you, DeVonta, to the Beeson Podcast. Welcome! >> DeVonta: Thank you so much for having me. It is so good to be here. >>Kristen Padilla: Would you begin today by introducing yourself to our listeners. We always like to hear a little bit of your story. Where are you from? Anything about your family and faith in Jesus Christ. >>DeVonta: Okay. I was born and raised in Florence, Alabama. Actually attended the University of North Alabama where I got my bachelors. As far as my background and my faith walk, I was actually given up for adoption the day I was born. I was adopted when I was three months old. But I spent the first seven years of my life in a foster home. My mom, she was not able to have kids, but she loved kids. So she started a foster home and ended up actually winning foster parent of the year a couple of years in a row. So, she ended up adopting seven beautiful children, including myself. So, I have six siblings. After finalizing the adoption of all seven of us, she decided that no more foster home, no more bouncing around from house to house. From now on we need stability. I remember this as clear as day. She sat us down in the living room and said, “From now on, you’re a family and you’re going to act like a family. And we’re going to start going to church as a family.” So, that was pretty much the beginning of my faith walk. >>Doug Sweeney: How old were you when that happened? >>DeVonta: Seven years old. >>Doug Sweeney: All right, because I think you told us in the magazine you felt a call to preach when you were seven years old. >>DeVonta: Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: And that’s an unusually young age at which to sense a call to preach. Tell us a little bit about that. >>DeVonta: Yes, after my mom told us that we’re gonna start going to church as a family, most of us may had only been to church one or two times. So, we didn’t know much about it. But I will never forget it. I was seven years old. One Sunday, not long after we started attending, maybe only my second or third week attending, we are sitting in the congregation. I’m watching the pastor preach. And he has on this black robe with red crosses on it. And I do not remember a single word he said, but I will never forget it. I felt the Holy Spirit and I felt God’s presence for the first time. I remember God saying to me, as clear as day, “What that man in the black robe is doing, that’s what you’re going to do one day.” And I’m like, “Wow! Does this happen every time you go to church!?” ‘Cause church was still new to me at that point. But it was an unusual experience. Especially for someone at such a young age. But it was a great experience. And it was definitely a defining moment. >>Kristen Padilla: You graduated from Beeson in 2019 with your Master of Divinity degree. What brought you to Beeson? I wonder if you can fill in the gap between seven, feeling called to preach, to end up at Beeson Divinity School to prepare for ministry? >>DeVonta: So, although I was called to preach at the age of seven, keep in mind that church was new to me. I did not grow up in a Christian culture. I grew up in hip hop culture. A lot of people when they think of hip hop they think of rap music, but they don’t understand it’s a culture. It’s how you talk, it’s how you walk, it’s how you see ... it’s a lens through which you see the world. That’s what I grew up in. So, I was completely immersed within hip hop culture. But at the same time, because of my background, coming from a background of moralistic deism, coming from a background of very traditional, staunch religion way of going about church. Me and my family, we were subconsciously taught that you cannot be authentically hip hop and be a devout Christian at the same time. So, I thought God could use somebody like me. So, from the age of seven all the way to the age of sixteen I wrestled with my call. I really found myself in a dark place, because I wanted so bad to answer my call to preach, but just knowing that, one, I’m a sinner. But then, two, at the same time even if I want to repent of my sins, God can use somebody like me. That’s what I’m thinking. But a beautiful thing happened one day. Keep in mind that a lot of my teachers they also knew that there was a natural born leader in me. So, no matter where I went people could see the calling in my life. But the issue was teachers just didn’t know how to reach me. One day when I was 16 I had a student teacher, band teacher. He came up to me and he said, just like all the other teachers said, “DeVonta, you’re a natural born leader, you have a calling on your life. Why don’t you answer it?” And I said, “Honestly, I don’t think God can use somebody like me.” Because at this point, the only Christian rap I had seen was either somebody who was not authentically hip hop, but they’re trying to use Christian rap to reach people who they couldn’t relate to. Or they are authentically hip hop but they’re not a devout Christian. They only do it because they believe it’s the right thing to do or their parents make them do it. So, I had never seen someone who was authentically Christian and authentically hip hop at the same time. So, I told him, “Man, God can’t use somebody like me.” And he says, “Well, have you ever heard of Lecrae?” And I said, “What’s that, a rock group?” And he goes, “No, he’s a Christian rapper.” And I’m like, “Oh, I don’t want to hear it.” I don’t want to hear it because of my previous experiences with Christian hip hop. But he gave me a CD and I took it home. It was the CD, “After The Music Stops,” which came out in 2006. But this would have been 2008 when I was 16. I listened to that CD and by the second song I had given my life to the Lord. And not only that, I looked him up and come to find out he is sound theologically, he’s involved in biblical community, he even has a record label full of artists who are just as passionate about Jesus as he is. And they all are in an accountability group with one another. I just thought that was so beautiful. It was then I saw, “God really can use someone like me!” So, I answered my call to preach. I preached my trial sermon when I was 16. I started rapping after that. Like I said, ended up going to the University of Alabama where I got my bachelors. But then I knew that I was going to have to get my MDIV at some point. And the AME church requires in the discipline that all pastors have the MDIV. I serve here in the 9th district, which is the state of Alabama, and we had actually two of our best pastors who at the time were working at Beeson Divinity School – Dr. Ronald D. Sterling, and Dr. Patricia A. Outlaw. And both of them helped me to get into the school. And after they helped me to get into the school, praise be to God, I was actually able to do my SMP under Dr. Sterling, and then after serving my SMP under him I was able to intern under Dr. Outlaw for a second internship. So, I find it funny that most students don’t get the opportunity to intern for one college professor and God blessed me with the opportunity to do it under two. So, God is really good in that. >>Doug Sweeney: All right, so, you’ve already talked a little bit about hip hop culture and what it means in your view to be authentically hip hop, and I’m just thinking about our listeners; some of them know a lot about hip hop culture, some of them don’t. So, help us out. What does it mean for you to incorporate hip hop culture, rap music, in your ministry? Just practically speaking, how do you do that? What do you do? >>DeVonta: Both directly and indirectly. What I mean by that is, yes, I’m intentional about how to reach certain audiences, because you know you have to go about different means to reach different types of people. But at the same time I don’t have to try. It’s natural. The love of God is in me. The Spirit of God is in me. The Spirit, it goes forth with the power of God, the word of God is in me, so I don’t have to pretend to be something I’m not. But at the same time hip hop, it’s who I am. It’s how I see the world. So, I don’t have to pretend. I can minister just as easily to the seasoned saints as I can to the younger people who may not like traditional means. They want to hear hip hop. So, it hasn’t been hard for me at all. It just requires me being myself. And being willing to serve. And being ready to serve, actually. >>Doug Sweeney: So, just one quick follow up. There’s a little bit of a debate going on about integrating hip hop and pastoral ministry. I want to ask you what you think about that and how you handle it? But I’m still thinking about some listeners who have heard some songs on the radio or television, they know what hip hop sounds like, they know what rap music is, but I’m not sure they know what hip hop culture is and what it means for a pastor like you to try to incorporate hip hop culture in your ministry. >>DeVonta: That’s the first thing – hip hop is simply a culture. I think too many times we are so quick to judge other cultures, but we forget that the first form of Christianity was not Western Christianity. The first form of Christianity, it’s found in the ancient Middle East. It then made its way to what we now know as East Africa. Before it even went to Europe. And even before it went to Europe, you see it in Asian Minor, you see it in the southern parts of Europe before you start seeing it in countries like Britain, Germany, and France. I say all that to say that Christianity, it transcends culture. It has since the beginning. So, you have people who they judge hip hop thinking that hip hop can’t be used. But what they fail to understand is it’s a culture just like any other culture. And it’s a culture that God can use. Hip hop is not just rap music. It’s so many different things. It’s art. It’s a way of speech. It’s a way that we see certain things. But even bigger than all of that – with rap music itself, rap is nothing but poetry. It may be added to a different type of beat that some people are not used to, but when you take the beat away, it’s nothing but poetry. That’s all it is. It’s somebody just taking rhymes that they wrote in their notebook or typed up on their phone and just saying those, maybe a little bit faster, but that’s all it is. But to people who don’t like the beat, they say, “Well, I understand rap is poetry, but why do you all have to have such hardcore beats or whatever?” First of all, not all the beats are hardcore. You see a lot of rappers who have violins, flutes, harps in their music. Hip hop itself is very diverse. It’s able to reach so many different people. That’s why it’s the number one genre in the world right now. Because it, more than any other genre, is able to reach different types of people. But then even when it does come to the hardcore beats, I mean, if you really just break it down, yeah, the beats may sound a little hardcore, but all it is, is a thump and a couple of cents. My question to them would me, “How can you declare a thump and a couple of cents evil? How could you declare that sinful?” You see people all the time who they simply clap their hands and stomp their feet and make a beat. That’s all hip hop is. It’s just that the beats are a little more defined and they got a little more bass to them. But at the end of the day, you can’t declare something in and of itself sinful. Just like a house. If a house is dirty, you don’t say the house is bad. No, you say it’s dirty and it’s not kept up with because of the people who live in the house. But you can’t look at hip hop, look at the beats, and say, “Oh, this is a sinful means. This is something we can’t use. It’s too street. It can’t come into the church.” No, God is able to redeem anything. God is so powerful he can save anybody from any form of sin. I mean, we teach that the power, the name of Jesus, the blood of Jesus, it’s powerful enough to break every chain. We teach that. So, if we teach that about sins, why don’t we teach that about cultures as well? >>Kristen Padilla: One of the things that came through so clearly in the article, the first person article that you wrote for the magazine, is a love and calling to young people. And so you really see your preaching ministry and your songwriting, hip hop, rap ministry and even your ministry in this school as being cohesive. So, tell us how do these things fit together for you? In particular, I would love for you to share with our listeners what you do I believe every sixth Sunday. And then how it’s bringing and reaching the youth in your community? >>DeVonta: Yeah, so, at St. Paul AME Church in Adamsville where I pastor. Every fifth Sunday we do this thing called Fab Five Sunday. We call it Fab Five Sunday because the same way the Fab Fave at the University of Michigan in the early ‘90s they brought hip hop to basketball in a way we had never seen before. Before they came, everybody wore short shorts. You didn’t see players with bald heads or high top fades. You didn’t see none of that. And they definitely did not tell you ... They may have listened to hip hop in the locker room, but they didn’t tell you in the media that they listened to hip hop because they knew they would get judged. Well, the Fab Five comes in and they changed college basketball forever. Now you can’t even imagine going to a basketball game and hip hop music not being the main form of music that they’re playing throughout the basketball game. It started with the Fab Five. So, what we did is we call it Fab Five Sunday. Every fifth Sunday instead of doing the normal worship service, what we do is I get up and I rap and I preach in-between songs. And what we’ve noticed is that it brings out so many youth to the church. As a matter of fact, in the Black Church tradition, there’s this joke that there are some people who are CME’s, the only come to church on Christmas, Mother’s Day, and Easter. I say that to say, well, at our church we have what we call Fab Fivers. We have kids who don’t even come to church on Christmas. They don’t come to church on Mother’s Day. But they are there every Fab Five Sunday. And it’s so interesting. As a matter of fact, I was talking to my secretary one time because I was going over a list of kids that are members of the church and I was like, “Have I seen some of these kids?” And I called her and said, “Hey, do I know this girl right here?” And she goes, “Yeah, she comes every time you have Fab Five Sunday.” Just another example that they don’t come on other Sundays but they come on this Sunday. But I’ve noticed that just me, myself growing up in hip hop culture, I noticed that there are a lot of people who they honestly do not listen to Christian or gospel music. Their ear is completely turned off to it. You will even find people who say they have no desire to listen to Christian or gospel music. With that being said, we have to find unique ways to reach them. We got to find ways to reach people who you’re not going to be able to reach if you try to give them a Kirk Franklin or a Fred Hammond or a whatever – a Commissioned CD. Because they’re completely turned off to it. So, what is the means? The means is what they do listen to. That’s hip hop, that’s rap, and you can say all you want, that we shouldn’t mix the church with the street, but first of all, isn’t that what evangelism is? It’s going out and reaching people. I mean, that’s what evangelism is. And we have to find ways to reach people. We can’t stay stuck in our own ways because if so, we’re never going to be able to reach them. Because they don’t want to listen to what has been offered. We’re going to have to offer something new. I’ve seen it work in my own personal ministry. I’m seeing kids who they love hip hop, they want to see it in the church, and they come to church on Fab Five Sunday because we’re doing that. And I really do believe if we find unique ways to incorporate hip hop and rap into our worship services, we will find that it will make a difference in the lives of the young people. Because whether we want to accept it or not, hip hop is the number one music genre in the world right now. Back in 2019 it surpassed rock music and rock music had been the number one accepted genre for I think more than 30 years. Hip hop has finally surpassed that. So, this is what the kids are listening to. This is what they love. This is what they identify with. So, we’ve got to find a way to incorporate it into our worship services the same way we did blues, the same way we did rock music, the same way we did country music. >>Doug Sweeney: What you say doesn’t surprise me, what does surprise me, given how far down the road we are on the worship wars we’ve been having for quite a while now, it surprises me that there’s still a big debate that you’re dealing with about using hip hop music in worship services. We do use and have for most of my adult lifetime all kinds of other forms of popular music and rock and roll music and so on. Is there something about hip hop that has people thinking it’s a different category? I mean, what are you actually dealing with? What is the state of that debate today, first of all? And how do you think we should respond to it, secondly? >>DeVonta: The first reason why I believe that so many people are against hip hop is because of where it comes from. Keep in mind, after slavery ended the reconstruction era started. And this was you have a bunch of uneducated slaves, can’t read or write, and no longer are we able to make them do slaver labor on our plantations. What are we going to do with them? Well, what a lot of communities did was they forced them to the outside. Do you ever wonder why you can tell where certain White people live and where Black people live? That’s what happened. They were pushed outside the city limits. Not only that, but then a thing called redlining happened where certain cities decided where they were going to invest their money. And it definitely was not in the those Black communities. So, between redlining and I hate to say it like this, uneducated slaves who couldn’t read or write, yet you’re denying them educational opportunities, you’re denying them certain jobs, and I mean, let’s just be real about this, the whole purpose of the ghetto was to strip away hope for a certain group of people. That is what hip hop was birthed out of. It was birthed out of a culture where the community was designed to strip away hope. Whenever we found ways to re-ignite hope the leaders were killed. Dr. King is killed. Medger Evers is killed. Schools or churches burn down. The fire department is doing nothing to try to save them – just let it burn down. It was birthed out of a place of pain, out of a place where hope was nonexistent. It came out of those places. Hip hop actually took the form of where it came from. So, because you go into these communities and you see there’s a lot of violence, you see there’s a lot of drugs, you see there’s a lot of gangs or whatnot. Hip hop, it came out of that. So, a lot of people are against hip hop, like I said, because of where it comes from. But another group of people, they’re against hip hop because they hate that it took on the identity of where it was from. So, I hear mostly White people say, “We shouldn’t use it because it comes from a Black community.” I hear Black people, older Black people, what I like to call seasoned saints saying, “We shouldn’t use it because we did all this marching. We did all this to fight for our equal rights. And they’re setting us back. They’re making it to where it’s hard for us to be able to get acclimated into what we call ‘predominantly White’ culture and mainstream culture, or whatever.” So, I hear even my own relatives who don’t want it to be used. They don’t like it because in their mind what we are doing is we are making it harder for us to be accepted into what they call ‘mainstream culture.’ But my argument to that would be – if they’re going to be racist anyways, then why do we have to conform to their rules or wear our hair a certain way or talk a certain way or act a certain way if they’re going to be racist towards us anyway? So, that’s the first thing I see. But the second thing I see is that some people just honestly don’t know how are we going to incorporate hip hop into worship? And because we didn’t accept it in the ‘80s it’s even harder now. Because now hip hop is taking on a different form. If we would have accepted it in the ‘80s it would have been easier to incorporate it into our worship. Because hip hop was so simple in the ‘80s. “It was going down to the grocery store, got a couple of Snickers, gonna need some more.” It was very basic in the rhyme form. But we were against it then. But now hip hop has taken on so many different forms. It’s gotten faster. The beats have gotten more complex. So now you’re got people who are saying, “Well, we’re wanting to use it now, but how are we going to use it? How can we incorporate it?” I think we really missed out on a great opportunity because if we would have incorporated it in the ‘80s then we would have already answered all of these questions. But because we were so against it, both Black and White people, for different reasons, now we find ourselves in a dilemma. Now we’re just trying to figure out how can we catch up. >>Kristen Padilla: I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about your approach to songwriting and what that looks like for you? And then I think that could be a nice segue into telling our listeners about the song that we printed the lyrics in the Beeson Magazine called, “So Amazing” and what you were trying to convey with this music. I know we’re going back to the kids again, but it has a story with the youth that you’re trying to reach. So, part one, what does your writing process look like? Part two, can you tell us about “So Amazing?” >>DeVonta: Yes. My writing process is actually based off of a quote I heard from CS Lewis. CS Lewis once said, “You can either rap about ...” Well, he didn’t say “rap” he was talking about write. “You can either write about the sun, or you could write about what the sun helps you to see.” And that’s what I try to do in my music. There are some songs where it’s in your face. I’m unashamed of the gospel ‘cause it’s the power of God to the salvation of souls for everyone who believes. I’m not scared to say I’m a representative of Christ. Christ died for me. How could I not live for him? I got lyrics where it’s just me bragging about the Son and how good he is and how God is good all the time. But then I got other songs where it’s a little more discreet. And it’s intentional. What I’ve learned is you heard me talk earlier about how there are some people who they refuse to listen to Christian music. They are completely turned off to it. So, if you say to them, “Hey, I got this Christian CD. I want you to listen to it.” They’re not even going to give it a chance. Well, how are we going to get my music to them? So, what I’ve learned to do is I’ve learned to write so many different types of genres of music. R&B, Pop ... I can write gospel and contemporary. But focusing more on the Pop and the R&B. I’ve learned how to write lyrics, Christian based lyrics in the way to where it sounds like you’re normal Pop song. So, I may be writing about how I’m struggling with my relationship with the Lord, but it sounds like I’m just struggling with a regular relationship. But I did it that way intentionally so that whether you are struggling with your relationship with the Lord or you’ve wronged somebody, hey, go and make it right. I’ve learned how to do that. So, I’ve learned ways to which I can use music to get it to anybody’s ear. I don’t feel limited. I thank God for the versatility because I know that there’s nobody that my music cannot reach. Whether that be an older person who doesn’t like rap. Well, I know how to dumb it down to make it to where it’s more Pop and it’s something that they can groove to. Or it’s the people who ... they love the hard beats. I can do it all. And I’m not trying to brag on myself. It’s just me saying that God has gifted me in a unique way. And he’s given me a unique understanding of how I could reach so many different people. Whether that be boastful lyrics where I boast about the glory of God or lyrics where I’m just rapping about life and the things I see. And you may not even tell I’m a Christian on that song at first. But if you listen to the whole album you will. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, DeVonta, we love your desire to redeem Hip Hop and Rap music for the sake of reaching young people and other fans of those forms of music with the gospel. And we would love it if we could talk you into performing one of your songs for us so we could hear for ourselves how it is that you redeem it. Would you be willing to do that for us? >>DeVonta: Yes. Okay. So, I’m going to rap a cappella. It’s actually just gonna be a combination of songs that I’m going to do. But what you’re going to hear is in these combination of songs you’re going to hear my testimony and you’re also going to hear just how great my God is. I have a song specifically called “Flexing.” And the reason why it’s called “Flexing” is because I’m just a firm believer that God is always in the blessing business. He never stops being good. Even in seasons where it’s hard to see his goodness, we believe what the scripture says – that all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose. That means good and bad. Everything I go through, God is strategically using it for my ultimate good and for his glory. So, we’ll start it off like this. Otherwise let me tell you where I’m from A foster home [inaudible 00:26:51] Single mom raised us [inaudible 00:26:55] But it’s all good. Me and him made up. I only bring it up so that I might inspire some. ‘Cause I was broke, too, like [inaudible 00:27:01] Every day to school and got made fun of. But I made it, no faking, and you can’t debate it Four year institution and I graduated, plus I got my masters. Not bragging at all, if that’s what you thought- Please hear what I’m saying. I’m not a statistic. Not a delinquent. I’m not dissing no one, Just thankful to be in the good state of being. I’m making a difference. It can be exhausting. But it is so pleasing. For the turnaround, can I get a turn up. [inaudible 00:27:22] glow up. [inaudible 00:27:24] done up. I need everybody in here to get crunk. Sister now, mother now, I’m gonna need hands up. Can I get a couple [inaudible 00:27:29] come up? Spaz out if you like, [inaudible 00:27:32] If you above ground, get [inaudible 00:27:33] like you won one. My God’s a beast. He’s so artistic, the flick of his wrist- It is so wicked. From mountains to flowers to sea full of fishes- Just look at creation, man. How could you miss it? This was no accident. Only He did it. He is omnipotent, He’s self sufficient. He is so omniscient and He’s preeminent. Not enough words. He’s beyond description. My God is flexing. Ha! Showing off muscle. He’s showing off muscle. He makes ways in the ways. Does the impossible. Does the impossible. You can’t stop his clan. No. It’s [inaudible 00:27:58]. The God I’m describing is the lion within me. The strength that I need. So, [inaudible 00:28:04] stop me, you cannot [inaudible 00:28:05] No. His plan for me, I’m training, I’m rolling. Whoa. To Heaven I’m going. I’m moving on up past the Jefferson strolling. Whoa. [inaudible 00:28:12] The way folks behaving, but trust me they know what they know. This kid anointed. Even if you do not like me, you cannot ignore it. You cannot ignore it. No. I don’t need that itch with that bop in it. I’m made in His image. The Spirit that’s holy is in me. There’s too much. No stopping it. Don’t try to stop me. You will take an “l”. ‘Cause I’m in His will. Not the document. And he don’t take ails, he only [inaudible 00:28:31] Counting my blessings like counting my [inaudible 00:28:35] No need to worry, now I should just rest. There’s no expressing. I cannot express my zest. My God is the best. My God is flexing. [inaudible 00:28:42] not stressing. No need to worry. Ha! Just resting. My God is flexing. [inaudible 00:28:46] not stressing. ‘Cause He don’t take “l’s”. [inaudible 00:28:49] Spanish. Whoa. And what I mean by that is, in the Spanish language, if you take to l’s and put them next to each other, they cancel each other out and make a “y” sound and all I’m saying is my God doesn’t lose. He doesn’t take l’s. He only wins. He only gives “w’s.” >>Kristen Padilla: Wow. Thank you, DeVonta. That was amazing. That was so incredible. And what a gift to share with us and our listeners. So, if our listeners want to listen to more and they want to find your music, tell us how they can find you and your music and what you have coming up? >>DeVonta: Yeah. So, I’m actually done working on it, we’re done recording. So, I just finished recording an EP. It’s eight songs long. No, it’s nine songs long. Right now, the only thing we have to do is get it mixed and mastered. So, I’m done with my part and now it’s just up for the engineer to finish mixing and mastering it. We’re looking at getting it out within the next two to three months. But if anyone wants to keep updates on the music and know when it’s coming out and how they can get it, all you have to do is follow me on social media. You can follow me on Facebook @DeVontaSwang. By the way, that’s my stage name: Swang. You can also follow me on Tik Tok, Instagram, SnapChat, and Twitter - @pastorswang. But yeah, you will find all the updates on the music there. And you will also find updates on some of the shows we’re doing. >>Doug Sweeney: Wonderful. Pastor Anderson, thank you very much for being with us. Kristen and I always like to conclude these interviews by asking our guests what they’ve been learning recently from the Lord. Could you offer our listeners a word of encouragement? Just based on some of the things the Lord has been doing in your life and teaching you in recent weeks and months? >>DeVonta: So, because I’m so new into pastoring, I’m actually learning a lot. Pastoring, there’s no amount of books that can get you ready. Amen? Seminary does a service, don’t get me wrong. But until you get your feet wet – what I’ve been learning as a new pastor, as a young pastor, is your talents and your giftings can only get you so far. What I mean by that is that I think too many times we make the mistake of thinking that just because God has equipped me with this gift and he has enabled me and empowered me with this gift and just because through the grace of the Holy Spirit I’ve been able to refine that gift and to sharpen those skills ... And I went to seminary and got tools to help me better with the gift, we think that we can do ministry out of our talents and our giftings and not realizing it’s only going to go so far. One good example I like to use with that is Mark 6. You see in Mark 6 the disciples, God gives them the power to preach and cast out demons in his name. You see that in Mark 6, but then you get to Mark 9 and there’s a father with the boy and this boy has a spirit that is contrary to him. And he brought him to the disciples ‘cause Jesus was with three of the disciples, Peter, James, and John – up on the mount. And there he was transfigured. But while the other nine were down at the mount there was a crowd and the man brings his son to the disciples and they could not cast him out. They couldn’t do it. Jesus comes down and to make a long story short, what do you see? That Jesus was able to cast the demon out of the boy. And the boy lives. And scripture says that when they got back to the house – ‘cause I’m pretty sure the disciples were too embarrassed to ask in front of the crowd – they pulled Jesus to the side and they said, “How come we couldn’t do it?” And Jesus says, “This type can only be done with prayer and fasting.” And I say that to say that talent and gifting can only go so far. You’ve got a lot of people out there who are building their ministries off of their talents and their gifts. And you’re seeing the church grow rapidly. But I’m here to tell you, it will only last so long and it will only go so far. Even if you have great intentions. Make no mistake about it. There have been times in my ministry where even with the best intentions I found myself coming from a place of talent. And you know, gifting, and I realized then that this can only do so much. It’s the Spirit of God who saves. Don’t get me wrong, the gospel was preached. And the gospel, it alone, scripture says it’s the power of God to the salvation of souls. The gospel can save whether I’m in tune with it or not. But when we are operating in the Spirit of God, and the gospel is going, you know the Spirit of God, the gospel going forth through the power of the Spirit, scripture says clear as day that the word, it will accomplish all it has set out to do. It will go forth and it will not return void. I’ve seen the difference in me working out of my talent and me working out of the Spirit and what it does for the people. I’ve seen the gospel go forth me working out of my talent and it blesses people. But I’ve seen the gospel go forth with the power of the Spirit and how it heals and how it comforts and how it truly encourages people. So, that’s probably the biggest thing I’ve learned in my short amount of time that I’ve been pastoring. >>Doug Sweeney: A good word and a great conclusion to our time together with Pastor DeVonta Anderson, Senior Pastor of St. Paul AME Church in Adamsville. Also a Hip Hop and Rap recording artist. We’re proud to say he is an alumnus of Beeson Divinity School. And we are grateful to him for being with us today. Thank you, Pastor Anderson, very much. Listeners, thanks for tuning in. We love you. We’re praying for you. And we say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.