Beeson Podcast, Episode #509 Dr. Gregory Aug. 11, 2020 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. We have a friend and Samford colleague on the show with us today to help us continue to address racism and racial injustice in our society. Let me remind you about our virtual preview day taking place on August 13th. Due to covid19 we’re hosting this event online. I, myself, will be participating. So, if you or someone you know is discerning a call to ministry we would love for you or them to join us. Preview day is free and all who attend will have their application fees to Beeson waived – saving $35. So, please register on our website, www.BeesonDivinity.com. Kristen, would you please introduce today’s special guest and begin our conversation? >>Kristen Padilla: Hello, everyone. Today we have Dr. Denise Gregory. She is the Assistant Provost for Diversity and Intercultural Initiatives at Samford University, as well as an Associate Professor of Chemistry. So, we are so pleased to have you, Dr. Gregory. Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. >>Dr. Gregory: Thank you all for having me today. So glad to be here. >>Kristen Padilla: I just gave basically one sentence telling our listeners what role you play at Samford, but we would love for you to fill out the details. We want to get to know you better. Who are you? Where are you from? Anything that you want to say about yourself. >>Dr. Gregory: Yes. Thank you so much for that. So, yes ... I don’t know, I guess when I think about myself I’m like, wow, there are so many things and adjectives that can describe me. But I’ll just start with it quickly. I’m the daughter of Henry and Linda Jones. I’m from Columbus, Mississippi. A lot of people know, and some people don’t know, but I’m a triplet. So, I have two other sisters that were born on the same day as me, on April 1st. For my parents they thought that this was a joke, because I was born in the early ‘70s, and I say that it was being a joke because my mom really did think that she was having twins for a good little while during her pregnancy. Because at the time they weren’t able to do as many sonograms during the time that we were born. So, for a good while she thought she was having twins. But the Lord blessed her with the three of us. We are all female, girls, doing well. My sister, one of them, is the Assistant Principal at a Shelby County School here in the area. The other one serves as the Assistant Superintendant in Jackson, Mississippi. My parents had the three of us and didn’t have any more after that. (laughs) I was raised in the public school system there in Mississippi. From there went to Jackson State University. The three of us went there together. And my parents also as well are graduates of Jackson State. I fell in love with science early on in the seventh grade. I chose Chemistry as a major while I was there. I left there and the good Lord blessed me to be able to go to Georgia Tech for graduate school. I went there for a degree in Chemistry. So, my PhD is in organic chemistry and I’ve been using that degree to really try to increase the number of minorities that are in fields, a STEM field like chemistry. We know that’s an underrepresented group, so I have a passion for that. So, one of the things, the programs that I’ve started here at Samford is a minority youth science academy. So, that’s a summer program that we run out of our office, an overnight program for high schools students, 10-12th grade, to spend some time here to think about careers in STEM. Also to increase that STEM field with minorities involved with that. Met my husband while I was there at Jackson State. He and I have been married for 19 years. And we are blessed with that union. We also have one daughter that came from our union, and of course when I married my husband I had a bonus son that came along with him that I also greatly am in love with what he is doing. He’s a graduate of the Naval Academy and doing well with that. Then I have my 15 year old, who is right now trying to decide what she’s going to do with school, and work that all out. But she’s a blessing also to us as well. I attend 6th Avenue Baptist Church here in the city. I’ve been an active member there, on the trustee board there for our church, and also very involved in my Sunday School class. Very involved with our youth programs at our church, because of my daughter’s involvement also as well. I work with Girl Scouts. I serve as a troop leader. I serve as one of the advisors of one of the sororities here on campus. Delta Sigma Beta which I am also a member of. I’m an active member of Jack & Jill of America which is also an organization of mothers that are involved with educating and developing their children. I’m kind of all over the place with a lot of things that I’m involved with. But I am grateful for the Lord to be able to allow me to be able to do those things, and hopefully do them at a level that people say that they’re being done well. So, I’m grateful for the opportunity to have all of that. A little bit about my role here, yes, at Samford. I have not always been in the administrative role. It’s been about the last six or seven years. But most of my time here has been developed for the 15 years in the Department of Chemistry. So, I’m grateful for that. I’ll stop there and take more questions. I hope that gave you a little bit about me and some of the things that I’m involved with here. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s wonderful. What a blessing to be a colleague of such a gifted, busy person! Thank you for that. >>Dr. Gregory: Thank you. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Gregory, you came to Samford a long time ago – 2004 – to be a chemistry professor. And then I think it was in 2013 when you were asked to play a strategic leadership role, to become what was first called “Director of Diversity and Intercultural Initiatives,” and what now is called Assistant Provost of Diversity and Intercultural Initiatives. Could you tell our listeners just a little bit about that role in the Provost’s office? >>Dr. Gregory: Yes, thank you so much for that. So, actually it began a little bit before the other Director role. In my role as a chemistry professor and also being involved in serving as the advisor for one of the sororities on campus the position, the advisor position was for a sorority that is an African American sorority. So, in that role I was doing a lot of mentoring, involvement, especially with Black women on our campus, and kind of coaching them on. And some indirect roles of I guess what I kind of am doing now. So, at the time I also served on the Faculty of Diversity Committee. And the faculty really, really wanted a diversity position in the Academic Affairs office that would look at curriculum and also be a resource for students and their involvement there. So, at the time I actually served on the search committee for that position that we were looking for in that role. At the time that role was actually a merged role with diversity as well as with international studies. So, at the time we thought that was something we should probably split the roles and to do two separate units. So, when we did not find someone that really fit both roles we realized maybe this might be where we want to separate and make a separate position for that. At the time Brad [inaudible 00:07:53] was the Provost at the time and he came to me and said, Denis, we’re re-thinking about how we want to restructure this position. Would you be interested in taking a faculty development grant and actually doing this in a faculty role as a one year trial run to see if it’s something that you might be interested in. So, really, the very first year was I think about 2012 and it was a faculty development position. Then from that, that role then turned into the Director of Diversity and Intercultural Initiatives after a year in the role of the work that we wanted to see done. So, that’s kind of how I got into the position there. And from that and the work that we’ve done I’ve been grateful God has given me the ability to have this leadership opportunity to help us guide our university with our work in diversity and inclusion. Now, we recognize that our work in our office ... and notice I used the word “guide,” because our office is not ultimately responsible for all of the work that we’re doing on campus. We are so grateful for partners that we have all across the university that are recognizing the importance and the value that this is something that we are all a part of, it’s not just our office. We just may be the ones that assist or help or provide leadership for it. Again, it’s all of our work to be able to do that. So, I’m just grateful to be able to lead that charge for us on campus. >>Kristen Padilla: Conversations around racism are nothing new but they have seemed to escalated in the last couple of months following the deaths of Brianna Taylor, George Floyd, Arhmaud Arbery, and have caused a lot of institutions to really take an inward look at how they’re functioning in relation to this conversation. What role has your office played in these conversations as it relates to Samford? And why are these conversations so important for places like Samford University? >>Dr. Gregory: Yes. Thank you for asking that. Early on, and during this time of unrest, our office held kind of a listening session for our students, and kind of just wanted to open it up to say, hey, we’re here to listen. What can we do? How can we share? So, there was a conversation that we held in conjunction with our Black Student Union and the National [inaudible 00:10:10] Council, which is the governing body for the African American Greek organizations here on campus. And also collaboration with our SBAA, which is our Samford Black Alumni Association. We brought the groups together just to kind of have a conversation about what’s going on in our country. We had the leaders from each of the groups I just mentioned, the Black Student Union, the NPHC, and the SBAA, to kind of speak and just kind of talk about what’s going on. And really kind of, I guess if you want to call it a group therapy session. Because we recognized the value and the importance of just kind of hearing your thoughts and sharing those. So, we did have that group therapy session that we coordinated. Then we also recognized the importance of mental health. And so we worked with an African American counselor, a female counselor that’s here in the area that’s kind of been doing some work, some contract work for us on campus, and provided counseling sessions to the students. We recognize that healing occurs when we talk about it and when we share. We recognize that a lot of our Black students were also in the process of educating also as well some of their friends their non people of color friends that they were educating. So, there was some exhaustion there as well. We wanted to share and help them understand. So, we did do that work and we’re grateful for the office of advancement, alumni affairs, and the Samford Black Alumni Association for helping us financially support that. To have the counselor that is with us to be able to provide those services for our students. We recognize that we do have a counseling center on campus, but our students just kind of made a connection with the lady that we contracted with as a Black female to kind of share these stories with. So, we felt that it was important that we kind of stick with that. I’m just grateful for us to be able to provide that to our students. And for them to have healing with that. >>Doug Sweeney: Could you tell our listeners a little bit about a task force on racial justice that President Westmoreland convened just this spring and summer? Who is involved in it? What’s the purpose of the task force? And what are we hoping to accomplish? >>Dr. Gregory: Yes. Thank you so much for that. I’m actually just going to share with you our charge that we have. It says the primary goal of the task force is on racial justice, it’s to assist the university in fostering positive enduring changes in campus culture and existing systems so that racial justice may become a known attribute of the institution. Racial justice at Samford past and present will be examined and addressed. So, I say that we are looking at ... though any area we have the flexibility to look at all areas of campus to be able to go back. We think it’s very important also that we look at our past to see how we got here. And then also to make recommendations on how we move forward and how can we make sure that we are fostering those positive changes in our campus and in our culture. The task force is included of several members across campus that are made up of our current students, our staff, faculty, alumni, parents, as well as some of our board of trustee members are on it also as well. We have deans that serve in the role and we’re grateful for you to be a part of this as well with the group. All of the group is very, very large. We recognize that we have ways that we can work through our task force and get so much accomplish by working in sub committees. So, we’re grateful to have great leaders that lead that. So, Mr. Holmes and I are the co chairs of the task force, but there are so many people that are involved on the task force that are leading those sub committees and so I call them the champions. They’re the ones that are really making sure that we are staying on task and getting the work done. Our goal is to try to have something to present at the end of the semester, at the end of December. If we need more time on that we’re willing to ask for that, but our goal is to try to get some tangible steps of how we move forward to be able to share with President Westmoreland and with the board of trustees so that we can make sure that we are honoring those changes that we want to make. >>Kristen Padilla: Dr. Gregory, you are working a lot with students and we would like to know, especially for our White listeners, if you could share with us about the unique challenges African Americans and other people of color of faith attending predominantly White universities, like Samford. What are those challenges? >>Dr. Gregory: Yeah. I think for some ... I mean, I think a lot of them are very, very similar to what all students may face, but I think they become heightened in a position when you are a person of color attending a predominantly White university. What do I mean by that? I think a sense of community is difficult to find for a person of color at a predominantly White institution. It’s not that they aren’t able to or willing to be a part of the groups, but making sure of having a sense of concern of will I be accepted to be able to be a part of the group. I think there is some hesitation or a sense of afraid or being involved when they first arrive to get to campus. How do they do that? I think that’s also a concern of parents. Especially for our undergraduates when we have ... our office actually does a promotion to what we call a Diversity Preview Day, where we actually have a preview day just for students of color who want to attend, or anyone who’s not ... a White person can also attend that wants to learn about some of the resources that we have for students of color to be a part of Samford’s community. When we have those sessions parents ask those things of, “Hey, will my daughter be able to fit in here?” “Will my son find a place where people will accept him for who he is?” I think that those are some of the things that parents see a little bit more heightened because there may not be, or what they physically can see, a place where someone looks like them in those roles. You know? So, there’s concern there. With that and ways to help that our office actually hosts what we call our IMPACT Program, it stands for Inspiring Minorities to Pursue Academics and Community Together. That’s a peer mentoring program that we offer for freshman that are coming in for the fall. What it is, we pair them ... incoming freshman with an upperclassmen. We are so excited to share that we have 37 students that have already applied for that for this upcoming year that are coming in. 37 may not seem like a lot, but that is for us for an upcoming class of students who have actually reached out prior to even arriving at Samford. We feel it’s important that we provide that space for our students to kind of help create a sense of community when they walk in the door. Right? It’s kind of like when kids that play athletics or are a part of the band. As a freshman when you go into that place you’re walking in with the band camp in the summer. You’re like, “I already have friends.” It’s like you’ve already created that sense and not being afraid because you’ve been able to walk the halls already to find out where all your classes are. So, with our IMPACT program we do something like that. We create that sense of community, kind of for them when they come in, to help them find that space there for the students to feel a part. Are we expecting them to stay in that group? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But we just want to make sure that those first few weeks when we know it can be troubling or hard and having those moments when you’re wanting to go back home to parents – that you find someone who is really there to say, “Hey, you can do this. We want you to be a part. And we value you being here at Samford.” >>Douglas Sweeney: One of the things that the members of the Beeson family will see when they return to campus for the fall is a new memorial in the form of an obelisk that the President and the board of trustees dedicated just recently that’s in our Divinity Hall quadrangle there. Dr. Gregory, can you speak a little bit about its significance? It’s supposed to get us thinking about the history and significance of race, racial reconciliation, racial justice at Samford University. What should our students know about it? What would you say is important in the life of a university like ours about reflecting on the way we’ve handled some of these things in the past? >>Dr. Gregory: Yes. Thank you for that. Yes, the obelisk is in the courtyard as you mentioned. I have not been able to actually see it either. I have not gone on campus to see it just yet. Initially the plan was for us to unveil it on April 6th at a luncheon that the SBAA hosts and the obelisk is to honor the many contributions of African Americans who have helped build and sustain the institution here at Samford, and the mission, and supporting it. Part of the inscription on it speaks on Samford’s mission and also a hero that we’ve had [inaudible 00:19:37] that’s a part of our history here at Samford and his contribution. As well as Audrey [Lattamore 00:19:41] Gaston who was our first African American [inaudible 00:19:48] at Samford University as a law student. So, the memorial was scheduled to be unveiled at that ceremony on April 6th and then it was scheduled to be dedicated on May 5th by the board of trustees during their spring meeting. Of course Covid19 hit and so we were not able to do that. There was a virtual exercise that we were able to share with others. I think that our obelisk is going to give us the time to really pause and reflect and think about the contributions that African Americans have made on our campus. I know sometimes when we think about our history that that may not be the first thing we think about of how our university was built and the different things that people were able to provide, people of color and African Americans provide to us at our university. And also the great work that’s being done for our president. We also think about, when we see it, the presence of what’s going on, and how we might be able to make sure that we are aware of any racial injustices also as well. So, when we pass that, that should be something that’s a symbol to remind us to make sure that we are having racial justice in our society. >>Kristen Padilla: Dr. Gregory, those who are listening who might be an ethnic minority staff member, faculty member, and they’re just kind of exhausted by the current state of race in our communities. What word of encouragement might you give to them? And then on the flip side, what word of advice might you give to those who are White who work or go to Samford who want to be an ally and a support in racial justice? >>Dr. Gregory: Yes. Thank you for that. For people of color, our Black students and faculty employees, that we know that you are here. We know that ... we value each other. We know that you’re here. If there are stories that you share, we know that they are real. We know that sometimes people feel that our stories that we hear from people of color, especially Black students and what they share, “oh, that’s not real, that’s something that’s not happening, they continue to keep talking about this.” No, no, they are real. And there are things that after some point they get to be exhausting, they get to be tiring, and they get to be things that you just wish would ... you just want to be treated like everyone else is and not be ... micro aggressions and different things like that. I just say all this to say that, yes, those stories are real when you hear them. And we need to make sure that we do not underestimate a person’s story and to try to place it off as being something that’s not important. But what I will say also to our White allies is to make sure that we speak up. When we see things that are injustices that are wrong that we say, “No, this is not the way it should be done. This is something we have done wrong to someone. We need to correct that.” Being a bystander can be just as bad or received in a negative way as a person that is doing it also as well. We want to make sure for our allies that we’re speaking up and to say when we see injustices that are being wrong. I also want to challenge our faculty members to think about ways that they can actually create opportunities in the curriculum; to think about how they might be able to share works of other authors, people of color, and how they might be able to share that literature. Also the speakers that you want to invite to your classrooms and how you can see people in roles that we wouldn’t necessarily choose initially to be a speaker in our classroom. Maybe just think outside of how we might be able to bring someone else in and show that there are great people outside of Whites that we see in these roles. But there are also people of color that also are able to share their opportunities and their points of view on different topics that we’re covering in our classroom. I also suggest maybe that you think about [inaudible 00:24:08] on both sides, our network of friends that people that we’re around, is that we try to create opportunities where we find people that are different than us. We want to come together so that when there are times when we’re not sure of how we should move in a space or what we should say then there are ... we created friend relationships with people, then we can go to them and say, “Hey, can you help me with this? I’m not quite sure I understand why this is happening or why this is going on.” I can guarantee you and I can promise you that if they’re your friend, they’re going to give you grace when you make that mistake. Or if there is a mistake, and that’s on both sides, if there’s a mistake that’s being made. I really, really, really want to stress the importance of having relationships with others that are different than you and how important they become in recognizing the value that each of us brings to the Kingdom; that God has given each one of us a gift to provide to others. We need to value those. And then how do we use those gifts that each person brings to make sure that we are uplifting the Lord. >>Doug Sweeney: That is great advice. Dr. Gregory, we’re just about out of time, but we would love to end this podcast on a note of encouragement for our listeners. This summer has been discouraging to lots of us because of the Covid epidemic, because of the racial trouble we’ve been experiencing in our society, and I’m sure somebody in a leadership position like yours has experienced a fair amount of discouragement as well. >>Dr. Gregory: Mm hmm (affirmative). >>Doug Sweeney: Is there anything that’s been especially encouraging to you in your work? Particularly here at Samford – that you might be able to end this podcast on? >>Dr. Gregory: You know, I’m just grateful for the leadership opportunity. There are so many things that could be mentioned that have kind of been put in our way, but I’m just grateful to God it’s allowed me to be able to walk through this moment. One, just to know that he’s going to bring me through – to see that he’s bringing me through, right? I’m able to [bask 00:26:09] in his glory and say, “God, you brought me through yesterday as well even though it was a tough time. I was able to make it through that day and I’m here again standing in the next thing.” Also, being able to give me the opportunity to develop leadership opportunities, to grow, to learn. I’ve actually been in so many calls where I’ve been able to learn new things about how things work. And we take those for granted and think they’re small. I’m thankful for the opportunity to be able to provide new spaces that we’re creating with our curriculum to provide new areas that we’re looking at to bring about change at the university. So, these are all positive things for me to come out of this, if you want to call it, situation between Covid and our racial injustices that are coming out – that I’m able to say although there may have been some tough times to get here and some things that have happened that we did not want to see to get here I’m grateful to be able to share in those positive things that we’re seeing that are coming out of it. I’m just looking forward to Samford continuing to grow and develop to be able to provide opportunities for our students and really just to encourage them to know that he has a place for each one of us. And has designed each of us to do what he has for us and to be able to take that and just really grow and develop. I am also grateful for the opportunity to seek his wisdom. Each morning I wake up and I even had this discussion with my daughter about knowledge and wisdom. To thank him for the knowledge he’s given me, but I’m also seeking every day for the wisdom that he will provide to us so we can continue to grow to make Samford into the place that is pleasing to his kingdom. >>Doug Sweeney: You have been listening to Dr. Denise Gregory who is the Assistant Provost for Diversity and Intercultural Initiatives here at Samford University. She’s also a chemistry professor here. She is a very busy lady. We are glad that she made time for us on our podcast today. Thank you, Dr. Gregory, for being with us. Thank you, too, our dear listeners for tuning in. We can’t wait to be back together with you students next month. And alumni and friends, please pray for us. Please pray for Beeson Divinity School and Samford University as we do life together again this fall. Thanks very much for being with us. Goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.