Beeson podcast, Episode 445 Douglas A. Sweeney May 21, 2019 Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University in Birmingham, Alabama. Now your host, Timothy George. Timothy George: Welcome to today's Beeson podcast. Well, today I have the privilege of having a conversation with a dear friend of mine, Dr. Valerie Duval-Poujol, who is from France and is the chief editor of a new French Bible, Bible en Français courant. She's a distinguished New Testament scholar with degrees from the University of Paris, also, professor there at the Sorbonne. She has taught at the Institut Catholique in Paris for a number of years. Timothy George: I came to know her through her work with the Baptist World Alliance. We worked together on several international dialogues and conferences, and so I thought, "Wouldn't it be great to have Valerie to come to Beeson Divinity School and present our biblical studies lectures?" She agreed and she has been doing that this week, and now I have the privilege of this conversation. Welcome to Beeson, Valerie. V. Duval-Poujol: [French 00:01:14] and hello to everybody. Timothy George: Now, I want to begin by asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself. There's one thing we know for sure, you're French. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. Timothy George: So you must be from France. Tell us about your family, where you came from, and really how you came to faith in Jesus Christ. V. Duval-Poujol: Well, I'm Valerie Duval-Poujol, and as my name says, I'm from France and I'm a Baptist theologian specializing the Bible. This is my passion and also my job. I'm married to a Baptist minister, Sam, and we have our son, Thomas, who is 11, and we live in the South of France. I suppose many of you have been to Europe and France, so you know it's a nice place, but it's also a spiritual challenge. It's very good we have brothers and sister here, of course, in America. Timothy George: Our students are wondering, "How can she teach in Paris and live in the South of France?" You reminded us that there is a fast train, the TVG? V. Duval-Poujol: TGV, yes. Timothy George: TGV. V. Duval-Poujol: In three hours you cross the whole of your country so you can commute in the same day. You leave very early from the South of France and you teach in Paris and you come back in the evening. Timothy George: Wonderful. That's how you can be a wife and a mom, as well as a great biblical scholar and teacher in one of the leading institutions in all of Europe. Really in all the world. The same institution that John Calvin attended in the 16th Century and that so many great theologians over the years have been there. Timothy George: Let me ask you to say a little bit about the Bible. The thing I remember about you when I first met you and we were together in these conversations and dialogues, we theologians would be thinking about big ideas, and doctrines, and theories, and you would always say, "What does the Bible say about that?" You would bring us back to the text of scripture. That was so impressive to me. Why is the Bible so important to you? V. Duval-Poujol: Well, of course, the Bible is not the fourth person of the trinity. It's called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but this is the place where I hear about Jesus if I want to be more like him and as Christian, it's what we want to do, it's what we want to be. Where do I get how Jesus was? This is in the Bible, so in the Bible, it's good news. I meet and I hear about what he has done, his love for us, so this is the place where I can be more like him. Timothy George: Now, you come from a very distinguished family. I remember visiting once with your family in the South of France. Tell us a little bit about that story, the story of the Huguenot and the French who have often been persecuted in the past. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes, four centuries ago we have been persecuted as Protestants in France by the Catholic, by the time, the king, and my family is actually from this background as Huguenots. I have in my living room Bibles that have been transmitted from generation to generations and they come back from the 1750s, so it's a long testimony of God's faithfulness to us and a testimony of the gospel in my country although persecution was there. It's also an encouragement to see that now we have the freedom of religion. Although we have been through this we now have this freedom of religion. Timothy George: This is a wonderful thing, yes. Now, let's talk a little bit about your own work as a Bible translator because that's really this wonderful project you've been involved in for two or three years or more. Bible en Français courant, tell us about this translation. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. Well, we have many Bible translations in French and when we speak of a French translation it's not only for France but for all French-speaking countries. You have 56 countries in the world that speaks French, like in Africa, or Canada, or places like that, so they needed a new revised, would say daily French Bible. It's a Bible that someone that doesn't know about church language or church culture could read, and we wanted really to make the word of God available to anybody. Sometimes when you have been a Christian for many years you kind of learn the church language and you have this special language, but the Bible it is really for everybody to be understood, and we wanted to make the access to everybody. Timothy George: So it's a revision of a translation that had been made. I remember when I was first learning to read French there was a little translation called Bonne Nouvelle. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. Timothy George: So this is in that line of translation? V. Duval-Poujol: Yes, and we want people who are just born again, or people who are foreigners and who learn French, or people who discover, as well, the faith, we want them to be familiar and to feel confident in reading the Bible. Timothy George: Yeah. What is your approach to translating the Bible? It was obviously written in Hebrew and Greek, a little bit of Aramaic long, long ago. Different culture, different language. How do you approach the task of translating those documents into contemporary, vivid, living French? Running French, [French 00:06:19]. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes, [French 00:06:20]. I think one of the useful picture is to say that translating is about building bridges. You build bridges between these ancient times, these other languages, Greek and Hebrew, as you said, and the modern daily lives, which has not many thing to do with this Roman or Syrian ancient times. But we want to build bridges. It means you need to be academic trained to be close, accurate to the Hebrew and Greek, but also, to live in your time, to be sure that people of your time will understand so you build a bridge. Timothy George: Now, when will this Bible be available? V. Duval-Poujol: In September. Timothy George: So it's coming very soon. V. Duval-Poujol: Very soon. Timothy George: That's wonderful. You're giving a couple of lectures here at Beeson around the theme of Bible translation. What are the challenges, the task of it, and you have a very interesting title for one of your talks. Does Translating Mean Betraying? V. Duval-Poujol: Yes, it's often a question people wonder. Does translating means betraying? I wanted to show, and we will take many examples with the students, that translating is always about making choices. You have to choose between two senses of the Greek or Hebrew words. You have to choose and make decisions, so I want us to be aware of the fact that our translators led by the Holy Spirit are also human beings and they make choices. We can compare different translations. There was no such thing as a perfect translation. We need to compare them. Timothy George: Which means, I guess, also that the work of translation is never finally done or completed. It has to be redone for every new generation, for every new context. V. Duval-Poujol: Exactly. Timothy George: That's the work you've done as the chief editor of this new revision of the French Bible. What does that task involve? Because you're working with a whole team of scholars throughout the world? V. Duval-Poujol: Yes, this is what new. Before translators were doing their work alone, like the great [Jerome 00:08:20] or people like that. They were translating the Bible alone, but now things have changed. It's a teamwork and it's excellent to work with scholars that are Catholics or Protestant, from all denominations. We work together to study the word of God, to be faithful to it, and we try to render it the most faithfully possible. Timothy George: In America, especially among some evangelicals in America, there have been a lot ... We call them the Bible wars because we fight over this translation, that translation, this philosophy, that philosophy. How have you approached those controversial theories about Bible translation? V. Duval-Poujol: I suppose the first step was a lot of humility, realizing how much human our works is as well. Of course, we ask for the Holy Spirit to help us, but when you realize how much of yourself you also put into it, you realize that you need the others, that no translation is perfect or infallible, and that only the original manuscripts were. All translations are really human works. God uses them and we thank him for that, but we are thankful for these translations but we know they are not perfect. Timothy George: I want to talk a little bit about your other work. You're a Bible translator and that takes a lot of your time, but you also are involved in many other aspects of the life of the faith, the life of the church. We've said your husband is a pastor in France. You all have planted a church there. Also, you've been very involved in the work of the Baptist World Alliance. That's where I got to know you, and just recently you were elected as the vice president of the French Protestant Union, which has not only Baptist but other Protestant denominations. Say a little bit about that work. V. Duval-Poujol: I think it's also about the feeling of belonging to a larger family. We, as Baptists, we belong to a wider family than our national Baptist family, if you want, and BWA, Baptist World Alliance, is about that. It's about meeting the wider, broader family and getting to know each other, praying together, caring for each other, as well, to face all the challenges that this current world is having for us. This is part of this fascinating challenge of the Baptist World Alliance. V. Duval-Poujol: As far as the French Protestant Federation is concerned, this is a broader ... It's getting to know other Protestants. It's about, what can we do together? There was a principle in ecumenism that we call The Lund Principle, and it's a question that we should all ask to ourselves. What can we do together? What can we do together that will be better done when we do it together than by ourselves? This is why we have come together to do chaplaincy, to do television and major broadcasting, and to do interface with the government when we have to plea for something, advocate for human rights or for the migrants. We do it together. We stand together. Timothy George: That's one of the things I have appreciated about the Baptist World Alliance because it's a witness particularly for religious freedom, which is so much at stake in our world today. When Baptists across the world can make a united, global witness for something like religious freedom, much stronger coming from that global perspective than just the Baptists in America, or France, or Italy, or China, or wherever it might be. Another thing I've appreciated is being at the meetings and meeting these wonderful brothers and sisters from places I've never been and who face very different challenges than we have here, and learning and being inspired by their witness. It's a great encouragement, isn't it? V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. We talked about it with the students at Beeson yesterday. The fact that our culture is influencing us so much in our faith and we sometimes forget how much culture influences our faith. We need to meet other brothers and sisters from different cultures to realize the cultural lenses we have sometimes, and it's a way for God's spirit to talk to us as well. It talks to us through the testimony of our brothers and sisters from other countries as well. Timothy George: You're a Baptist, you're a Protestant, obviously, but you're not anti-Catholic. I mean, one of the things you have done really remarkable in a way is to represent the Baptist World Alliance at an extraordinary synod of the Vatican dealing with very important issues about the family, so talk about that experience of going to the Vatican and being there as a part of that conclave. V. Duval-Poujol: Well, yes. In this conclave, in this extraordinary synod on the family, I was the youngest one in the assembly. Assembly made of cardinals and bishops from all over the world. I was the youngest. I was one of the very rare female and to talk about the family. That was important that the Baptist World Alliance sent a woman theologian, and I had great conversation with these bishops and cardinals, and they took time to pray as well about these issues. I think we should really pray for these brothers and sisters in the Catholic church at the moment with the crisis they are going through. Timothy George: Yeah. Right. V. Duval-Poujol: They need our prayers. We all need to pray for each other, but they especially need our prayer at the moment. Timothy George: It's important to mention prayer because we think of ecumenism often as giving papers, and talks, and discussing ideas, and plans for getting together for this or that, but prayer is the heart of the ecumenical movement. Rightly understood, don't you think? V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. It's about sitting together at the feet of Jesus. We are coming to Easter soon. It's about being at the bottom of the cross and together looking at Jesus and listen to his voices, and this is when we look at him that we realize we are brothers and sisters. It's only in him that we are brothers and sisters. Timothy George: Wonderful. Well, Valerie, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the life of the church in France. You're a Baptist, and that has a very small number of Christians who are Baptist compared to other groups in France, and particularly, Roman Catholics, who far are the majority there. V. Duval-Poujol: We are, Baptists in France, a minority within a minority within a minority. I mean, Christians are not the majority anymore and within this Christianity, you have only 4% of French people who are Protestants. Among these 4% you have 1% who are evangelicals, and then how many Baptists in this 1%. It would 40,000 members, so that's really a minority within a minority in a minority. But we really try to be the salt. It's not only about the quantity, but it's also to taste good and to be faithful to our God. Timothy George: Tell us a little bit about this church you and your husband Sam have planted in [French 00:15:05]. I was able to visit in your village. It's a village, isn't it, in the South of France? A wonderful village, and the people were so warm and hospitable when I was there. We were able to worship with you and your family and this church family. Tell us about how that came to be and what the challenges are. V. Duval-Poujol: Well, yes. In France, evangelicals and Baptists among them try to plant evangelical churches for every 10,000 people. We have not reached that goal yet, so it means you have area in France where you don't have evangelical churches. We wanted to plant a church in a rural area, not just in towns, but we also wanted to reach the unreached there, so it explained also this choice. Timothy George: Well, want to go back just for a moment to your work as a scholar and a Bible translator. Now, you've completed this project. What is next for you on the horizon of scholarly work and publications? V. Duval-Poujol: Well, there are many books I would like to write to share this experience, to share what it means to translate and also to give the passion to people to read God's word. I have met many people who feel discouraged when they open their Bibles and they don't find anymore that it's a good news. I would like to write more books, and doing training, and conferences, and lectures to encourage them so that their heart would burn again when they read the pages, when they meet Jesus in these pages. Timothy George: I wanted to ask you a hard question. All these questions have been fairly easy. Now, this is a hard question. Valerie, Dr. Duval-Poujol, you are a French Baptist theologian and scholar. If you were to give some word to American Christians about our faith and you've interacted with us, what would you say? I said it was a hard question, Valerie. V. Duval-Poujol: Yeah, and we are among brothers and sisters, so we may speak the truth in love as well. I have met dear brothers and sisters in Christ each time I have come to the States, and I appreciate their deeply commitment. In the other sense, I also see how much culture has influenced the way they live their faith and for some ... Obviously not for all, but for some, one has a feeling that evangelicalism has become a culture and not always a faith anymore, so it could lead sometimes to something that are not very faithful to the gospel anymore because it has become a culture and not really a living faith, if you want. That would be maybe something we have to be cautious about. Timothy George: Yeah, and perhaps that's another way of encouraging us to go back to the roots, back to the sources in scripture itself. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. Timothy George: Because the closer we come to the Bible, I think the closer we come to Jesus Christ. The closer we come to him, the closer we come to one another. V. Duval-Poujol: Yes. Timothy George: Thank you for this wonderful conversation and for your visit to Beeson, for your lectures. May God bless you in the good work you're doing. V. Duval-Poujol: Thank so much, Dr. George. Announcer: You've been listening to the Beeson podcast with host, Timothy George. You can subscribe to the Beeson podcast at our website beesondivinity.com. Beeson Divinity School is an interdenominational evangelical divinity school training men and women in the service of Jesus Christ. We pray that this podcast will aid and encourage your work, and we hope you will listen to each upcoming addition of the Beeson podcast.