Beeson Podcast, Episode 384
March 20, 2018
Vickie Gaston

www.beesondivinity.com/podcast/2018/Lent-and-the-Life-of-Prayer

Announcer:	Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University in Birmingham, Alabama. Now, your host, Timothy George. 
Timothy George:	Welcome to the Beeson podcast. Today, I have a very special guest, a person with whom I work on a daily basis here at Beeson Divinity School, Vickie Gaston. Vickie is the curator of Hodges Chapel, and that’s a job that involves her in worship planning, and she also has responsibility for spiritual formation in our school working with students and faculty and staff to bring us closer to Jesus Christ. That’s the passion and desire of her heart, I know.
	Vickie, welcome to the Beeson podcast.
Vickie Gaston:	Thank you, Dean George.
Timothy George:	Vickie has a background in ... What was your undergraduate degree in?
Vickie Gaston:	My undergraduate degree is a BA in social welfare.
Timothy George:	And where was that done?
Vickie Gaston:	Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton, Florida.
Timothy George:	Okay. Then you came to Beeson and you have a master of divinity degree-
Vickie Gaston:	Yes.
Timothy George:	... from our school.
Vickie Gaston:	I do.
Timothy George:	You’ve been on staff as the curator of Hodges Chapel for-
Vickie Gaston:	Almost two years.
Timothy George:	Seems like you’ve been here forever. Of course, you were our student before you were our curator, so we've had a good and happy relationship working with you in so many ways. Today, in particular, I wanted us to focus on the season of Lent. We're now in the season of Lent, and next week will be Holy Week, when Christians around the world will join together in praying and listening to the Scriptures and coming together to remember especially the suffering, the death of Jesus leading up to the great Easter resurrection celebration.
	Tell us a little bit, what is Lent and why should Christians be concerned about it? 
Vickie Gaston:	Lent is a holy season of preparation to come to the cross of Jesus Christ. It is a time of penance and remembering in one's faith and trust in God and the salvation that he has brought to us and a time of remembering the atonement for our sins that Jesus paid on the cross for us. Lent is a time that keeps us from, as some people would say, jumping over the cross. It calls us to come to the cross and look upon our Lord and Savior and his last week here on earth and his teaching, his love, his gift preparing us to receive him as our Lord and Savior. 
	For instance, on Palm Sunday, the triumphant, the Messiah has come. Then with that week of people realizing that not only is Jesus Messiah, but he is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and our Savior. On Maundy Thursday, the night that, the Last Supper, and where he washed the disciples' feet and prepared them to go forth and do all that he would call all of us to do and for us to remember that when he washes our feet, that he is preparing us to live and breathe and have our being in him through what he calls us to do by believing in him as Lord and Savior. Then, on Good Friday to sit and look upon that death and the rending of God's heart, giving his all and all for us, and waiting on Saturday, the Easter vigil day, for that great bursting forth from the tomb where he is resurrected. 
Timothy George:	In the early church, I know the Easter vigil, the Saturday you're talking about, was a time for baptism for new Christians to enter into the Christian life.
Vickie Gaston:	I've often thought that during those 40 days of Lent when new Christians were preparing to enter into the Christian faith and learning of God's Word and being taught by elders and mentors in the church and then waiting until that day with anticipation for that baptism and for the community of believers to be waiting for them as the baptism was completed, for them to all then go together, rejoicing and receiving communion together on that resurrection Sunday. 
Timothy George:	As I listen to you talk, it seems we could say that Lent and Holy Week, in particular, is a way of walking with Jesus through this final week prior to his crucifixion and resurrection, identifying with him, waiting with him in Gethsemane, listening to him in a new and special way, perhaps. Now you're an Anglican. I know that. I'm a Southern Baptist, so we have some differences between us in regard to our denominational affiliation. 
	Let me ask you a question that a lot of Southern Baptists and a lot of free church people, Pentecostals, many other free church Christians, might ask about why Lent. Why do you make a big deal out of Lent? Because it's not a part of a lot of American free church tradition. Many Evangelicals are learning about Lent, some for the first time in recent years.
	One of the objections I've heard many times in my own life, I want to ask you. The things you say about Lent, all the wonderful things that you talk about, listening with Christ, walking with Christ, shouldn’t we be doing this all the time? What's so special about Lent? There's a prejudice against Lent on the part of some people. For example, Catholics celebrate Lent in a special way, often by fasting and traditionally having only fish on Fridays or giving up something for Lent. So you give up chocolates or you give up whatever it is for Lent. It seems to some Christians that that’s a kind of artificial, almost kind of works righteousness sort of thing you're trying to do to earn God's favor in Lent when you should be doing this sort of thing all along. 
	What's your answer to that?
Vickie Gaston:	My answer to that is it's both/and. I won't speak for everyone. Lent is an intentional time in a holy season to remember the penitence, the preparation that Christ made in the 40 days in the wilderness to face death for us, and for that atonement for our sins that happens at no other time of the year than before his crucifixion.
Timothy George:	Because Jesus died only once. Right?
Vickie Gaston:	Died only once.
Timothy George:	So we're identifying with that in a special way-
Vickie Gaston:	Yes.
Timothy George:	... at this season of the year.
Vickie Gaston:	Right. But then, to carry forth that thought of living a life of praise and thanksgiving to God for what he has done for us through prayer and fasting. That penitence and preparation throughout our entire life has everything to do with our sanctification and God forming us into Christ's likeness as we look for him to return.
Timothy George:	Surely that’s a lifelong process. 
Vickie Gaston:	That’s a lifelong process.
Timothy George:	It's not just 40 days out of the year when you try to be holy, but it's a way of coming closer to Christ in this kind of special concentration-
Vickie Gaston:	Yes.
Timothy George:	... so that all of your life is enriched and deepened in your walk with Christ.
Vickie Gaston:	Yes. Absolutely. 
Timothy George:	It might be helpful also to place Lent in the context of the church year. Lent is a penitential season of the year.
Vickie Gaston:	Exactly.
Timothy George:	Could you walk through the seasons of the year for us in the church year and kind of remind us what they are and what special emphasis they have just briefly? 
Vickie Gaston:	We have Advent, which is the prophetic waiting and Christ to come.
Timothy George:	It's also a penitential season, isn't it?
Vickie Gaston:	Which is also a penitential time. Also a time of preparation, for God is coming into our heart. It's God who chooses us and chooses to draw us into his holy presence. This is a time of remembering the praise and thanksgiving that he has done this and that purity of heart and living that is also a call for a time of penitence, which is, I would say, a way of remembering when Christ said, "Repent and believe," which means to continue to turn away from our sin-sick souls toward the cross, to live a life of repentance, of turning away from self and turning toward the cross and walking toward Christ in faith and in hope and in love.  
	The Advent is a time to remember that and to celebrate the birth of Christ on Christmas, which is our next season. And in that birth of Christ, that incarnational moment from God, that moment in time in history when God incarnate came to live and dwell among us. Then, as we remember with thanksgiving the light coming into the world with Epiphany when the Three Wise Men came. We would all remember that time and that season when the Wise Men came to honor Christ and that dwelling of him with us on this earth. 
	Then, when we move then right always into the time of Lent and Maundy Thursday and Good Friday, when Christ was raised from the dead. The shortest sermon in the Bible in Luke 24 is, "He is not here. He is risen." But he promised always when he was here with us that he would return. Within that time after Easter, we remember his ascension into heaven, as promised, with our heavenly Father and also Trinity Sunday and remembering Father, Son, and Holy Spirit always, making that manifest presence in relationship with us and our belief in him. As the season goes on, then 50 days later with Pentecost.
	What is so amazing to me about God and his Word, and his timing, in salvation history and drawing us into his life with him and communing with him and making us the people of his own, that Pentecost was 50 days after Christ was raised from the dead, and that is when people were coming to Jerusalem to bring their best fruits of their harvest, which is why there were so many people in Jerusalem from all over- 
Timothy George:	Crowded, yeah.
Vickie Gaston:	... the world and crowded. He, instead, gave the best of his fruit, the fruit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
Timothy George:	Oh, that’s beautiful. Yeah, wonderful. Pentecost lasts for a long time in the church here, doesn’t it?
Vickie Gaston:	It does.
Timothy George:	Then in the fall, many of us have very special emphasis around Reformation Day.
Vickie Gaston:	Yes. Right. 
Timothy George:	It's not technically maybe a season of the church, but those of us who stand in the Reformation traditions remember Martin Luther and John Calvin and what God did in the awakening of the church in the 16th century. We celebrate Reformation Day here at Beeson, and we have a whole week of Reformation Heritage Lectures. That, of course, leads into Thanksgiving, which is more of a secular, you might say, and yet it has a deeply spiritual meaning, doesn’t it? It's a time when there's a whole community, maybe a whole nation, we come before God in penitence and prayer and humility and thanksgiving. Then, again, we're ready for Advent. Following the church year is not a kind of legalistic ticking off of a I have to do this then.
Vickie Gaston:	No. No.
Timothy George:	But it is a way of living out the life of Christ as a community of faith-
Vickie Gaston:	Yes.
Timothy George:	... here and now in the present.
Vickie Gaston:	It is a way of living out. It's a rhythm of remembering in our relationship with God, who he is and how he draws us and being in communion with him individually and corporately. Thankfully, as C. S. Lewis would say, "He has given us many rooms in which to worship him when we worship him in truth," worship his word and his Son.
Timothy George:	This whole thing about Lent and the church here is not confining us in a prison.
Vickie Gaston:	No. No.
Timothy George:	It releases us and enriches us and widens our experience of what the true worship of God in Spirit and Truth ought to be.
Vickie Gaston:	Yes. 
Timothy George:	I want to focus a little bit of our discussion today on the theme of prayer, because, of course, prayer is central to all of these moments and seasons of worship that we've been talking about and maybe especially during this season of Lent and Holy Week. Tell us a little bit about prayer from a biblical point of view. What is prayer?
Vickie Gaston:	From a biblical point of view, when one speaks of prayer, we are speaking of an intimate, communal relationship with God our Father through his Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit. When we are praying, if we want to think of a definition of prayer, it is listening to and speaking to God about the things that pertain to our salvation. When we have an anchor in prayer through salvation as God healing our relationship with him ... Salvation means healing, wholeness.
	He desires for us to be whole, body, mind and soul, and be reunited to him in right relationship with him as it was before the great fall. We always have to acknowledge that there was original sin and that we are sinful human beings in need of a Savior. When we are praying and speaking to God, we are speaking to him about his desires for us and knowing that right relationship with him and that wholeness of our being. That takes a lifetime. 
Timothy George:	Yes.
Vickie Gaston:	It is a joyful relationship with God that grows. It begins as a mustard seed of faith. It begins with a single prayer. Then throughout our lives, he comes into our being and teaches us how to pray. So often, people will ask that and, thankfully, they ask Jesus first, "How do we pray?"
Timothy George:	He gave us what we call the Lord's Prayer. 
Vickie Gaston:	Absolutely.
Timothy George:	What do we learn about prayer from the Lord's Prayer, or the Disciple’s Prayer, specifically? 
Vickie Gaston:	We specifically learn and in a way to come to God our Father, which means that we belong to him, that we are part of a family of which he is sovereign and omniscient, and who cares for us, and in that relationship, what is it that he desires best for us, acknowledging that he knows best. Then, within that, asking for the forgiveness of our sins and how it is that he would want us to live. It is a way when we pray in that pattern of prayer, it's not a way of being locked in in how we commune with and communicate with God, but it is a way of remembering who we're talking with. Prayer with God is an intentional time with our heavenly Father. I would hope that people would, as they're hearing this and remembering and thinking about how special the Lord's Prayer is, that first of all, first and foremost, listening to God first. When we say, "Hallowed be your name," that’s an understanding that this is a God who dwells with us. 
Timothy George:	Do you pray the Lord's Prayer every day? 
Vickie Gaston:	I do in this pattern prayer, but then also in the actual words. 
Timothy George:	Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. It's a kind of discipline in that way. Again, not a legalistic you-have-to-do-this-today, but it's a coming into the presence of the heavenly Father and we ask for our daily bread. Do you eat every day? Do you wake up in the morning every day? The Lord's Prayer should be a part of our daily life in that way. 
Vickie Gaston:	It is. It's a pattern of living. In prayer, we are taught to pray without ceasing. Well, that becomes a part of commending all that we do to God so that what we do is pleasing to him.
Timothy George:	We've been talking about prayer as speaking to God, and, of course, there's an awful lot in the Bible about prayers that are spoken to God. I want to ask you about solitude and silence as a part of prayer. What would you say about that?
Vickie Gaston:	I would ask and encourage everyone who is listening to marvel at the gift that God gives us of prayer, and in prayer, of listening to him, and in that time of listening is a time of silence and solitude, a time of pre-preparation, if you will. Silence that we talk about is that quietness, that readiness to hear God. The solitude is in that silence, the quality of the time that one is spending with God, and in that silence, asking the Holy Spirit to come and to wait for the Holy Spirit and to not inflict one's will upon that time. 
Timothy George:	Say a little more about what that means, not to inflict one's will upon that time. 
Vickie Gaston:	Well, when we think of what God's will is, that is his good pleasure toward us. When we remember that it is his desire for us to be whole, then we can't know what that is unless we hear from him. That quietness and that solitude is and in the presence of the Holy Spirit who continues the work of Jesus Christ within us, of convicting our hearts, of teaching us, of drawing us more and more into God's presence, of revealing his Word and the wisdom through his Word within us, of waiting on his Spirit to move in our hearts. 
	One person that I have read is Jeanne Guyon, who is a woman who lived 500 years ago. She was a nun, became a nun after she was widowed, and has written a book called “Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ.” In that, she writes of that time of solitude and silence and waiting on God to move, and then asking in the power of the Spirit to open the Word, open Scripture and read it in the power of the Holy Spirit. That time of teaching that God will bring will draw you and nourish you, and I would encourage those who are listening in this time of Lent and as you go forth in the coming weeks, that that might be a pattern to begin, and wait on God to move. 
	He will move in your heart. You will feel that stirring in your heart and that direction and especially in opening his Word, whether that be in a directed Bible study that you have or in opening his Scripture and trusting in how he will use that word to draw you into his presence and form you and deepen his relationship with you. It will be as though coming to the well and drinking deeply a refreshing drink that he has to offer us. 
Timothy George:	Is that a part of what is called meditation, what you're talking about now, listening to the Word, waiting before God in solitude and silence? Or is meditation something altogether different? 
Vickie Gaston:	For me, meditation is something that’s altogether different. Solitude and silence is not having a direction or a purpose truly. It is waiting on what God's purpose is for you. Meditation, there's usually then what would follow that as God stirs and moves in your heart, and particularly through Scripture in the way that he uses his word to draw us into his presence. Then, in that meditation, looking at that Word and praying with him through it, in that teaching of it that he has for our hearts. All last year, the only Scripture verse that he really gave me to meditate on is, "Be perfect as I am perfect."
Timothy George:	Matthew 6.
Vickie Gaston:	Matthew 6.
Timothy George:	That was the verse, kind of your verse for that year that you turned over and over in your heart and came to see. Bonhoeffer, we've been thinking about Bonhoeffer here this semester at Beeson. When he was leading the students in the seminary in Finkenwalde, he would give them a verse and say, "This is your verse," and for two or three weeks, that was the only thing he wanted them to do, really, was to focus on that verse-
Vickie Gaston:	Exactly. Yeah. 
Timothy George:	.. pray that verse, listen. Then they would come back and talk about it. It's that kind of idea is what you're proposing.
Vickie Gaston:	It is. Then that going forth because God does not call us to dwell only with him and his Word in and through us, to love him first and then to go out and love our neighbor is a time of sharing in that Word together, how is he using his Word in common to draw us in community with one another and to share in faith and celebrate in thanksgiving our walk with Christ together here on this earth., while we always remember that he's preparing us for eternity with him. I think often, we forget even in our prayer life and our meditation and our faith that Christ is returning. He will return. It helps us in those times of trials and tribulations that come and through prayer and our relationships with him the things that we don’t understand in this world. We live in a world where Christ is come and he is victorious over sin and death, but we do also live in the not yet, so we wait for him to return. Prayer gives us that place to go with God, to listen to him while we wait, and to learn from him and to trust what he is doing here and now, but to trust more what he'll reveal to us in eternity with him. 
Timothy George:	Vickie, you speak out of such a deep sense of peace with God and a reservoir of faith and trust in God. It comes through in what you're saying. I want to ask you two really hard questions now that come from our culture. They come from the lives of many people. We have around us today what's called the new atheism, very popular, very growing, especially among certain younger groups in our society that read the works of Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris or somebody and really find it hard to believe in God, and prayer is a part of this. 
	Two of the questions that come out in some of the literature on the new atheism are these. The first one is, how do we know when we pray that we are really talking to God and not just talking to ourselves? I'll give you both these hard questions together. The second question is, when we pray, how can we go on believing and praying when we get no answer to our prayer?
Vickie Gaston:	Well, I will answer the second question first. 
Timothy George:	Okay.
Vickie Gaston:	The answer that I would ask people to think about is, Are our prayers rightly aligned with God's prayers? Which leads into the answer to the first question, because when we remember that prayer is secondary, it is caused by God. I know often that we don’t think of it that way. We think that we initiate prayer, but our Lord and Savior sits on his throne of grace now. We know this in Hebrews 7:25, "And he lives to pray and advocate for us." 
	When we remember that in our relationship with God, that it is the salvation that God is offering us in our relationship with him, then when we are thinking about prayer and talking to God and with God and listening to him about the matters of our salvation, in the healing of our soul, then we begin to order the prayers in ways in which we are submitting to God. Often, prayer is not so much what we want out of the situation, but listening to what God's will is in the situation. 
	It's how we come to prayer and in that, knowing that it is he who is drawing us to him, then awaiting expectantly in faith that he will answer. I'm always so grateful in Psalm 27 where it says in the last verse, "I would have lost hope in the land of the living if it weren't for God." That sort of hope and not if he's going to answer, but when, then we think about in salvation, when is that answer given. I will give just a very quick story. 
	My father was involved in a horrific motorcycle accident. We prayed and prayed for him, and many people prayed for him, for his healing. The answer did not come in the way that all of us were hoping, but the answer was the best answer. Yes, we received what was a no, because God allowed my father to die, but in that was the greater yes, because my dad knew ultimate healing with God and the power of Christ in his death because he was a Christian.
	That’s why it is so important that we remember not to keep our prayers so earthly bound. Often, they're so earthly bound, but what is in your will, heavenly Father, through my finite sinful eyes, help me see through your eyes what is the right answer to this prayer so that we can see how he is answering it. But if we are asking things that are not of God and not rightly aligned with him, then we have to wait until he works and helps us see how in our sin those prayers are not rightly aligned. 
Timothy George:	It brings us back, in a way, to the Lord's Prayer, "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
Vickie Gaston:	Heaven. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Timothy George:	For me, the verse in the Bible that speaks most deeply about the real meaning of prayer and what you are talking about, prayer is not something that’s just self-generated but is really a gift that we receive, is Romans 8:26. I wonder if you would just comment. I'll read this verse and perhaps you could comment for a moment on it. It's where Paul is writing, and he says, "Likewise, the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings, with sighs and groans too deep for words."
	What does that mean? 
Vickie Gaston:	This is a Scripture that we use regularly. I do. The Lord has allowed me to be a part of the prayer healing ministry, and often in talking with people who are interested in praying for others, interceding for others and remembering that we often in our mind don’t know what to say to God. This is a verse that encourages us to trust him and that in that trust of him and the full obedience in Christ, that we don’t have to know what to say, but that God will guide us and show us what to say. 
Timothy George:	So sometimes when we can't even formulate our prayers in words, the Holy Spirit can take the growls and grunts and sighs and groans that we offer and take them to the heavenly Father in a way that we fully can't understand.
Vickie Gaston:	No.
Timothy George:	That we can accept that as part of the gift of prayer to us. 
Vickie Gaston:	It is. It's a manifestation of the presence of the Holy Spirit within us. It is a witness to the transcendence of God and to the mystery of faith. 
Timothy George:	We've been talking with Vickie Gaston today on the Beeson podcast. We've been talking about the church year, about the holy season of Lent and Holy Week that is right upon us, and specifically these last few minutes about the life of prayer. I wonder, Vickie, as we come to the end of this podcast if you'd be willing to lead us in a word of prayer together, praying that God will speak to all of us in a special way during this Holy Week that’s coming up. 
Vickie Gaston:	Thank you. I have a poem to read, and then I will go right into prayer. It was written by William Cowper, and it's called “Exhortation To Prayer.” William Cowper lived from 1731 to 1800. 
	"What various hindrances we meet in coming to a mercy seat, yet who that knows the worth of prayer but wishes to be often there. Prayer makes the darkened cloud withdraw. Prayer makes the Christian's armor bright and Satan trembles when he sees the weakest saint upon his knees. While Moses stood with arms spread wide, success was found on Israel's side. But when through weariness they failed, that moment Amalek prevailed. Have you no words? Ah, think again. Words flow apace when you complain and fill your fellow creature's ear with the sad tale of all your care. Were half the breath thus vainly spent, to heaven in supplication sent. Your cheerful song would oftener be, hear what the Lord has done for me." 
	Let us pray. Heavenly Father, I thank you that you give us the gift of prayer, this gift in which we can commune with you and come into the most intimate of relationships with you, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Convict our hearts, Lord, during this time of Lent. Where we have failed you, show us, remembering that you tear down and cleanse out of us what we no longer need in order to put in that which is right and pure in our hearts so that we may be healed fully and walk in union and communion with you through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
	I thank you that you would call us into this time of penance and remembering, Lord Jesus, that you call us to come with broken and contrite hearts. Make us teachable, I pray, Lord Jesus, in this time and always so that we may fully receive in the power of the Holy Spirit on that resurrection day the fullness of your love, the lavishing of your grace upon grace, for you, our heavenly Father, give your all and all.
	You give your only Son so that we might know you as Father and belong to you and then know the voice that you give each one of us, that blessed holy faith so that we may go forth rejoicing, loving you and our neighbor and going forth to do all that you have given us to do in this world. Help us always to have our eyes focused on the cross, remembering that you show us the way day by day as you prepare us for eternity with you. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, I pray. Amen.
Timothy George:	My guest today has been Vickie Gaston. She is the curator of Hodges Chapel here at Beeson Divinity School. Thank you so much, Vickie, for this wonderful conversation.
Vickie Gaston:	Thank you. In Christ, peace.
Announcer:	You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast with host Timothy George. You can subscribe to the Beeson podcast at our website beesondivinity.com. Beeson Divinity School is an interdenominational evangelical divinity school, training men and women in the service of Jesus Christ. We pray that this podcast will aid and encourage your work, and we hope you will listen to each upcoming edition of the Beeson podcast.